[data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry workshop - advice
Tracy Teal
tkteal at datacarpentry.org
Fri Jan 30 20:20:23 PST 2015
Thanks for the good discussion. Integrating components is definitely OK.
I think the main thing to think about isn't necessarily the tools they
want to learn, but why they want to learn them. What is your audience
trying to learn these skills to be able to do?
With the focus on hierarchical data and spatial data, this sounds
something like a 'Geosciences Data Carpentry' and maybe what they mainly
want to do is to be able to work with this data and do statistical
analysis and data visualization. We usually start with data organization
in spreadsheets, because that's where ecologists have their data. Could
you instead start with an HDF5 dataset, pose some questions you want to
ask of the data and shape the workshop around answering those question?
So your first lesson could be the HDF5 one - what the data type is, how
to load it in to R and work with it there. Then you could go on to R for
potentially more advanced analysis, loops, optimization and
visualization, since they're already familiar with programming, and
finish with shell for automation. If they do have messy spreadsheet
data, we have found that OpenRefine for data cleaning is a big winner
(thanks Christie who introduced us to that!). And that lesson can
actually just be a half hour demo. There even showing what's possible
with OpenRefine is the important thing.
In Data Carpentry our goal is to use one dataset, or a set of raw data
and its associated metadata, from start to finish for a workshop. This
shows the data work flow as a research scientist would typically use it
and motivates the lesson with a set of questions we want to ask using
that data, that match the type of questions the learners in that domain
will have. It's sort of a narrative structure to the workshop. Then the
new skills are being learned in the framework of existing knowledge and
hopefully the learners can also more easily go back and apply them to
their own data.
Also, you're not going to be able to meet everyone's needs, so once you
do decide, just being clear about what you're planning to teach, and at
what level, will help with expectations for the workshop.
Best,
-Tracy
> Leah Wasser <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>
> January 30, 2015 at 12:31 PM
>
> Thank you Ted, Christie and Greg et al!
>
> This advice is extremely useful. I just rechecked the spreadsheet. I
> am up to 27 responses -- most of whome are intermediate level coders
> although some might be learning a new language (R to python, etc) so I
> will do a followup survey.
>
> I've got 12 for python and 15 for R. I might get a few more next
> week. Looks like a custom approach will be warranted. I'll dig into
> this a bit more.
>
> If you are all open, I'd love to run ideas by the list serve or by
> this group.
>
> Leah
>
> *From:*Greg Wilson [mailto:gvwilson at software-carpentry.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2015 3:51 PM
> *To:* Christie Bahlai; 'Ted Hart'; Leah Wasser; 'Tracy Teal'; 'Hsi-Kai
> (Kai) Yang'
> *Cc:* dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi all,
>
> Hybridization engenders robustness - sure, do what's best for the
> audience and tell us afterward how it went.
>
> Thanks
> Greg
>
> On 2015-01-29 12:15 PM, Christie Bahlai wrote:
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Greg Wilson | gvwilson at software-carpentry.org
> <mailto:gvwilson at software-carpentry.org>
> Software Carpentry | http://software-carpentry.org
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
> Greg Wilson <mailto:gvwilson at software-carpentry.org>
> January 29, 2015 at 5:50 PM
> Hi all,
>
> Hybridization engenders robustness - sure, do what's best for the
> audience and tell us afterward how it went.
>
> Thanks
> Greg
>
> On 2015-01-29 12:15 PM, Christie Bahlai wrote:
>
> --
> Dr. Greg Wilson | gvwilson at software-carpentry.org
> Software Carpentry | http://software-carpentry.org
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
> Christie Bahlai <mailto:cbahlai at msu.edu>
> January 29, 2015 at 12:15 PM
>
> Hi Leah, Ted, et al;
>
> If it's heresy, oops, I'm a heretic ;). I recently instructed at a SC
> bootcamp at U of M, and we had learners divided into two rooms- novice
> and intermediate. Looking at the pre-workshop surveys, I decided that
> the novice room needed a bit more of an introductory go at object
> manipulation than the standard SC materials provided, so I used the DC
> materials for the first half of the R lesson. My co-instructors also
> worked in some of the DC data management curriculum in with the shell
> lesson.
>
> Is this slight hybridization kosher? All I know is the students are
> apparently asking for a DC bootcamp as well!
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Christie
>
> *From:*dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org
> [mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org] *On Behalf Of *Ted Hart
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2015 11:55 AM
> *To:* Leah Wasser; Tracy Teal; Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang
> *Cc:* dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> Glad to see that NEON supporting you putting on the workshop. Having
> read your e-mails it sounds like what you want is partially in the
> domain of Software Carpentry. I think SWC would give them many things
> they might need, but not know they need. For instance you heard that
> people are interested in loops, automating and optimization. Well,
> those are all pretty hard to do without a decent understanding of
> variables and data structures, and even optimization (profiling to
> start) needs functions.
>
> To expand a bit, how can you do loops and automation in any language
> without understanding different basic data structures..e.g. looping
> over a list is different than looping over a vector which is different
> than looping over a dataframe in R. So I wonder if you could just
> sort of slip those concepts in while focusing on the parts people want
> to learn and they'll learn more without even knowing it :). Git is
> also probably essential because I know more and more NEON work is
> being put on github. In the end workshop might end up looking like a
> hybrid of an advanced data carpentry (dealing with complex formats,
> SQL) and some basic software carpentry.
>
> I don't know if this is heresy, but it might be best to pull from both
> curriculums to meet the specific needs of NEON.
>
> Ted
>
> On Thu Jan 29 2015 at 8:03:18 AM Leah Wasser <lwasser at neoninc.org
> <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>> wrote:
>
> HI Ethan, Tracy and Kai,
>
> Thank you ALL so much for the feedback so far. I truly appreciate it.
>
> I gave folks here until next week to fill out the survey. As of now,
> I'm at 18 responses -- most of which are open / interested in a full 2
> day workshop. 6-Python, 12 -- R. Most are interested in SQL as well.
>
> Pulling Git makes sense and most would benefit from a short section on
> shell. I think most really want to focus on R or python. I also am
> open to doing two workshops or splitting materials if that makes sense
> to cover everyone's interests. For instance, I thought about just
> doing an afternoon focused on manipulating HDF5 data in R.
>
> In this case, our audience are not novice users. They self identify as
> Beginner / intermediate -- ie they're programming now -- many
> regularly. Many don't have formal training and want to hone skills.
> Does that by default make DC -- not quite the right fit here? Thoughts?
>
> Topically they are interested in
>
> 1.Hierarchical data formats (I've built materials for that)
>
> 2.Spatial data (I have a bit on that as well
>
> 3.Automating processes, looping, optimization
>
> 4.I'm sure data viz as well (I didn't include that in the list
>
> Very few were interested in the core programming skills (ie creating
> functions, variables, etc). I think because they are already
> implementing those skills.
>
> Thank you again for any feedback / advice, etc.
>
> Leah
>
> *From:*Tracy Teal [mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org
> <mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:40 PM
> *To:* Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang
> *Cc:* Leah Wasser; dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> That's great there's good interest! I agree with Ethan both that the
> lessons for Python and R are redundant and that it would be tough to
> teach both languages in two days. Maybe the question is more, what are
> people looking to do? Are they doing statistical analysis and data
> visualization with ecological data? If so, then R might be better. If
> they want to write scripts for data parsing or work with a lot of
> colleagues who are working in Python, that might be better.
>
> As Kai says, the current Data Carpentry workshop components are
> focused on data organization/management and the data
> analysis/presentation/visualization.
>
> The current modules are:
>
> - spreadsheets for data organization
> - OpenRefine for data cleaning (30 minute demo)
> - SQL for managing and querying data
> - introduction to R or Python for data analysis and visualization
> - the shell for automation
>
> If you wanted to be able to spend more time on R or Python, which
> we're finding people are interested in, especially being able to get
> through more of the data visualization, you could leave out the shell
> or SQL and use that extra time for R or Python.
>
> The mix of experience is always a challenge. Data Carpentry lessons
> right now have been developed for people with little to no prior
> computational experience, so no prior experience is expected or
> required. This means things can be a little slower for people who do
> have some experience, but has the advantage that we're clear about the
> level up front and it doesn't leave as many people behind. People with
> more experience still learn new tips and tricks for the things they've
> seen already and can help their neighbors, and often even if someone
> is experience with one tool, they might be new to another - so maybe
> they know SQL well, but haven't worked in R before.
>
> This focus on learners newer to computation, does mean, as Ethan
> mentioned that we're also not currently teaching git. As a concept,
> it's more advanced than what most people new to programming are ready
> for. We have talked about adding to the R lesson a component about
> working with github from within RStudio, as that takes away some of
> the complexity, but haven't had a chance to develop that or try it out
> yet.
>
> Does this approach and modules seem like it matches with what the
> people there need?
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
> *Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang* <mailto:hky2 at uw.edu>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 5:25 PM
>
> Leah:
>
> You might want to focus on either (1) data
> preparation/munging/management, or (2) data analysis/presentation.
> Data exploration probably is in between the two areas.
>
> It could be too aggressive trying to cover all aspects of data science
> in two days.
>
> Also you might want to assume the attendees can master at least one
> programming language. I believe learning how to program belongs to
> software carpentry. Data carpentry is all about data science.
>
> My 2 cent.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -kai
>
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
>
> *Leah Wasser* <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 12:09 AM
>
> HI Tracey, and fellow DC participants.
> I am looking for some advice. There has been ongoing interest in a
> Data Carpentry workshop at NEON (where i work for those of you who
> don't know me). :)
>
> The challenge that I see at this point, is figuring out what content
> would be most relevant. I posted a survey today and already have a
> handful of responses - all interested in a 2 day workshop.
>
> However there is a mix of interest in Python vs R. And some mix of
> background (mostly intermediate focused however).
>
> I am giving everyone a week to respond to the survey. Then I need to
> figure out an approach. Depending upon the volume of responses, i am
> even thinking about something that is split across days (R one day,
> python another). Git and shell combined? OR SQL ? Can anyone help
> guide me through the logistics of deciding the best approach for this
> workshop once the survey results are in?
>
> Thank you in advance!!
> leah
>
> Leah A. Wasser, Ph.D.
> Remote Sensing Ecologist
> Senior Science Educator - Universities
> National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON)
> Boulder, Colorado
>
> ________________________________________
> From: dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org
> <mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org>
> <dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org>
> <mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org> on behalf of
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> <mailto:dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> <dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> <mailto:dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:00 PM
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> Subject: dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Data Carpentry Genomics and Assessment hackathon (Tracy Teal)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 10:34:30 -0500
> From: Tracy Teal <tkteal at datacarpentry.org>
> <mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org>
> Subject: [data-carpentry-discuss] Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon
> To: discuss at datacarpentry.org <mailto:discuss at datacarpentry.org>
> Message-ID: <54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org>
> <mailto:54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> If you're working or interested in genomics or assessment, we hope
> you'll consider applying for our upcoming Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon. We?re very excited about this event and the
> opportunity to develop lessons targeting genomics researchers and build
> assessment in to the curriculum. Travel support is available. Please
> apply to participate!
>
> Dates: March 23-25, 2015
> Location: Cold Spring Harbor Labs, NY
>
> It's a short application and the deadline is this Friday, January 30th.
>
> Call for Participation:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5Bfc-Igt7Hd8kjXsuPw7SenOHkxIQbEDbtnZfAxXbA/pub
>
> Application:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cSQyPIvTIhCQGrFLRoQ0kSway1ZyxgRm9QL85BW8v8/viewform
>
> If you have any questions about the event, please let me know!
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
>
>
> End of dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2
> ****************************************
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
> Ted Hart <mailto:edmund.m.hart at gmail.com>
> January 29, 2015 at 11:55 AM
> Hi Leah,
>
> Glad to see that NEON supporting you putting on the workshop. Having
> read your e-mails it sounds like what you want is partially in the
> domain of Software Carpentry. I think SWC would give them many things
> they might need, but not know they need. For instance you heard that
> people are interested in loops, automating and optimization. Well,
> those are all pretty hard to do without a decent understanding of
> variables and data structures, and even optimization (profiling to
> start) needs functions.
>
> To expand a bit, how can you do loops and automation in any language
> without understanding different basic data structures..e.g. looping
> over a list is different than looping over a vector which is different
> than looping over a dataframe in R. So I wonder if you could just
> sort of slip those concepts in while focusing on the parts people want
> to learn and they'll learn more without even knowing it :). Git is
> also probably essential because I know more and more NEON work is
> being put on github. In the end workshop might end up looking like a
> hybrid of an advanced data carpentry (dealing with complex formats,
> SQL) and some basic software carpentry.
>
> I don't know if this is heresy, but it might be best to pull from both
> curriculums to meet the specific needs of NEON.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
> Leah Wasser <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>
> January 29, 2015 at 10:54 AM
>
> HI Ethan, Tracy and Kai,
>
> Thank you ALL so much for the feedback so far. I truly appreciate it.
>
> I gave folks here until next week to fill out the survey. As of now,
> I'm at 18 responses -- most of which are open / interested in a full 2
> day workshop. 6-Python, 12 -- R. Most are interested in SQL as well.
>
> Pulling Git makes sense and most would benefit from a short section on
> shell. I think most really want to focus on R or python. I also am
> open to doing two workshops or splitting materials if that makes sense
> to cover everyone's interests. For instance, I thought about just
> doing an afternoon focused on manipulating HDF5 data in R.
>
> In this case, our audience are not novice users. They self identify as
> Beginner / intermediate -- ie they're programming now -- many
> regularly. Many don't have formal training and want to hone skills.
> Does that by default make DC -- not quite the right fit here? Thoughts?
>
> Topically they are interested in
>
> 1.Hierarchical data formats (I've built materials for that)
>
> 2.Spatial data (I have a bit on that as well
>
> 3.Automating processes, looping, optimization
>
> 4.I'm sure data viz as well (I didn't include that in the list
>
> Very few were interested in the core programming skills (ie creating
> functions, variables, etc). I think because they are already
> implementing those skills.
>
> Thank you again for any feedback / advice, etc.
>
> Leah
>
> *From:*Tracy Teal [mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:40 PM
> *To:* Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang
> *Cc:* Leah Wasser; dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> That's great there's good interest! I agree with Ethan both that the
> lessons for Python and R are redundant and that it would be tough to
> teach both languages in two days. Maybe the question is more, what are
> people looking to do? Are they doing statistical analysis and data
> visualization with ecological data? If so, then R might be better. If
> they want to write scripts for data parsing or work with a lot of
> colleagues who are working in Python, that might be better.
>
> As Kai says, the current Data Carpentry workshop components are
> focused on data organization/management and the data
> analysis/presentation/visualization.
>
> The current modules are:
>
> - spreadsheets for data organization
> - OpenRefine for data cleaning (30 minute demo)
> - SQL for managing and querying data
> - introduction to R or Python for data analysis and visualization
> - the shell for automation
>
> If you wanted to be able to spend more time on R or Python, which
> we're finding people are interested in, especially being able to get
> through more of the data visualization, you could leave out the shell
> or SQL and use that extra time for R or Python.
>
> The mix of experience is always a challenge. Data Carpentry lessons
> right now have been developed for people with little to no prior
> computational experience, so no prior experience is expected or
> required. This means things can be a little slower for people who do
> have some experience, but has the advantage that we're clear about the
> level up front and it doesn't leave as many people behind. People with
> more experience still learn new tips and tricks for the things they've
> seen already and can help their neighbors, and often even if someone
> is experience with one tool, they might be new to another - so maybe
> they know SQL well, but haven't worked in R before.
>
> This focus on learners newer to computation, does mean, as Ethan
> mentioned that we're also not currently teaching git. As a concept,
> it's more advanced than what most people new to programming are ready
> for. We have talked about adding to the R lesson a component about
> working with github from within RStudio, as that takes away some of
> the complexity, but haven't had a chance to develop that or try it out
> yet.
>
> Does this approach and modules seem like it matches with what the
> people there need?
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
> *Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang* <mailto:hky2 at uw.edu>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 5:25 PM
>
> Leah:
>
> You might want to focus on either (1) data
> preparation/munging/management, or (2) data analysis/presentation.
> Data exploration probably is in between the two areas.
>
> It could be too aggressive trying to cover all aspects of data science
> in two days.
>
> Also you might want to assume the attendees can master at least one
> programming language. I believe learning how to program belongs to
> software carpentry. Data carpentry is all about data science.
>
> My 2 cent.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -kai
>
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
>
> *Leah Wasser* <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 12:09 AM
>
> HI Tracey, and fellow DC participants.
> I am looking for some advice. There has been ongoing interest in a
> Data Carpentry workshop at NEON (where i work for those of you who
> don't know me). :)
>
> The challenge that I see at this point, is figuring out what content
> would be most relevant. I posted a survey today and already have a
> handful of responses - all interested in a 2 day workshop.
>
> However there is a mix of interest in Python vs R. And some mix of
> background (mostly intermediate focused however).
>
> I am giving everyone a week to respond to the survey. Then I need to
> figure out an approach. Depending upon the volume of responses, i am
> even thinking about something that is split across days (R one day,
> python another). Git and shell combined? OR SQL ? Can anyone help
> guide me through the logistics of deciding the best approach for this
> workshop once the survey results are in?
>
> Thank you in advance!!
> leah
>
> Leah A. Wasser, Ph.D.
> Remote Sensing Ecologist
> Senior Science Educator - Universities
> National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON)
> Boulder, Colorado
>
> ________________________________________
> From: dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org
> <mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org>
> <dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org>
> <mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org> on behalf of
> dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org
> <mailto:dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> <dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> <mailto:dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:00 PM
> To: dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> Subject: dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2
>
> Send dc-discuss mailing list submissions to
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org
> <mailto:dc-discuss-request at lists.idyll.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of dc-discuss digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Data Carpentry Genomics and Assessment hackathon (Tracy Teal)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 10:34:30 -0500
> From: Tracy Teal <tkteal at datacarpentry.org>
> <mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org>
> Subject: [data-carpentry-discuss] Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon
> To: discuss at datacarpentry.org <mailto:discuss at datacarpentry.org>
> Message-ID: <54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org>
> <mailto:54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> If you're working or interested in genomics or assessment, we hope
> you'll consider applying for our upcoming Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon. We?re very excited about this event and the
> opportunity to develop lessons targeting genomics researchers and build
> assessment in to the curriculum. Travel support is available. Please
> apply to participate!
>
> Dates: March 23-25, 2015
> Location: Cold Spring Harbor Labs, NY
>
> It's a short application and the deadline is this Friday, January 30th.
>
> Call for Participation:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5Bfc-Igt7Hd8kjXsuPw7SenOHkxIQbEDbtnZfAxXbA/pub
>
> Application:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cSQyPIvTIhCQGrFLRoQ0kSway1ZyxgRm9QL85BW8v8/viewform
>
> If you have any questions about the event, please let me know!
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
>
>
> End of dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2
> ****************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> dc-discuss mailing list
> dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss
>
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