<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Olemis Lang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:olemis@gmail.com">olemis@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Barry Warsaw <<a href="mailto:barry@python.org">barry@python.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Jul 28, 2010, at 07:49 AM, Olemis Lang wrote:<br>
><br>
>>>> +1 for including the tests by default.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Agreed 100x with Barry -<br>
>><br>
>>IMO, tests shouldn't be installed in production systems ...<br>
><br>
> It's certainly within the decisions of platform packagers to separate tests<br>
> from the code, but I'd argue that it's not worth it. I just don't see what<br>
> advantage *not* including the tests gives you.<br>
<br>
</div> - Nobody (human, software, ...) is gonna execute *accidentally* the tests<br>
in a production server (e.g. running server will not wait until<br>
finishing the<br>
3h test run to acquire global lock or connection ...)<br>
- Space is preserved . That's something important if talking about<br>
using the package in constrained environments (e.g. limited devices,<br>
shared hosting, ...) . This also makes me recall decisions like<br>
splitting stdlib in order to build custom (as small as possible,<br>
yet functional) installers for Python itself</blockquote><div><br></div><div>If you are trying to split the stdlib to build a custom installer for Python, then you </div><div>are:</div><div>* already going through massive amounts of work which doesn't compare to removing tests from a package</div>
<div>* in a very unique case (e.g. this is not a common situation)</div><div><br></div><div>Personally, I would not care to support the idea of removing my tests from my package</div><div>just to be able to fit in that situation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>And about Shared Hosting: unless you have over 500MB in tests, I do not see this as an issue.</div><div><br></div><div>If you are trying to run a python package in a restricted device, why wouldn't you want to run some tests?</div>
<div><br></div><div>And if the tests don't fit in the device... why would you want to use it to start with? </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
.<br>
- Python test suite is *optionally* installed -at least in Windows-,<br>
isn't it ?<br>
So it seems it's worth it for all packages in stdlib under certain<br>
conditions .<br>
- It's always possible to install the test package at any time and do<br>
whatever with it , as well as remove it later.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> And arguably it can make for<br>
> more complicated packaging,<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>Yes definitely , but I'd say complex (since «complex is better than<br>
complicated» ;o)<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Sure, there are exceptions, and big frameworks/packages might want to do<br>
> things differently. But I'd argue that the *majority* of Python packages are<br>
> fairly simple and straightforward and it's better (and easier!) to just<br>
> include the tests.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>Well, «practicality (will always) beat purity» (and that's why I first<br>
mentioned that I'd like to do something like this , but currently I<br>
don't 'cause, in practice, I've not had the time to think about how to<br>
do it «perfect» & easy ;o) .<br>
<br>
PS: I understand that probably there's not a universal solution for<br>
all kind of packages .<br>
<div class="im"><br>
--<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Olemis.<br>
<br>
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