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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval:.5in'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Hi Leah, Ted, et al;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>If it’s heresy, oops, I’m a heretic ;). I recently instructed at a SC <span class=SpellE>bootcamp</span> at U of M, and we had learners divided into two rooms- novice and intermediate. Looking at the pre-workshop surveys, I decided that the novice room needed a bit more of an introductory go at object manipulation than the standard SC materials provided, so I used the DC materials for the first half of the R lesson. My co-instructors also worked in some of the DC data management curriculum in with the shell lesson.<br><br>Is this slight hybridization kosher? All I know is the students are apparently asking for a DC <span class=SpellE>bootcamp</span> as well!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>-Christie<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org [mailto:dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ted Hart<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 29, 2015 11:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> Leah Wasser; Tracy Teal; Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang<br><b>Cc:</b> dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry workshop - advice<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Leah,<br><br>Glad to see that NEON supporting you putting on the workshop. Having read your e-mails it sounds like what you want is partially in the domain of Software Carpentry. I think SWC would give them many things they might need, but not know they need. For instance you heard that people are interested in loops, automating and optimization. Well, those are all pretty hard to do without a decent understanding of variables and data structures, and even optimization (profiling to start) needs functions. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>To expand a bit, how can you do loops and automation in any language without understanding different basic data structures..e.g. looping over a list is different than looping over a vector which is different than looping over a dataframe in R. So I wonder if you could just sort of slip those concepts in while focusing on the parts people want to learn and they'll learn more without even knowing it :). <span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Git is also probably essential because I know more and more NEON work is being put on github. In the end workshop might end up looking like a hybrid of an advanced data carpentry (dealing with complex formats, SQL) and some basic software carpentry. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I don't know if this is heresy, but it might be best to pull from both curriculums to meet the specific needs of NEON. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ted<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu Jan 29 2015 at 8:03:18 AM Leah Wasser <<a href="mailto:lwasser@neoninc.org">lwasser@neoninc.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>HI Ethan, Tracy and Kai,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you ALL so much for the feedback so far. I truly appreciate it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I gave folks here until next week to fill out the survey. As of now, I’m at 18 responses – most of which are open / interested in a full 2 day workshop. 6-Python, 12 – R. Most are interested in SQL as well. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pulling Git makes sense and most would benefit from a short section on shell. I think most really want to focus on R or python. I also am open to doing two workshops or splitting materials if that makes sense to cover everyone’s interests. For instance, I thought about just doing an afternoon focused on manipulating HDF5 data in R. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In this case, our audience are not novice users. They self identify as Beginner / intermediate – ie they’re programming now – many regularly. Many don’t have formal training and want to hone skills. Does that by default make DC – not quite the right fit here? Thoughts?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Topically they are interested in </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>1.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hierarchical data formats (I’ve built materials for that)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>2.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Spatial data (I have a bit on that as well</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>3.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Automating processes, looping, optimization</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>4.</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I’m sure data viz as well (I didn’t include that in the list</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Very few were interested in the core programming skills (ie creating functions, variables, etc). I think because they are already implementing those skills. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you again for any feedback / advice, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Leah </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-outline-level:1'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Tracy Teal [mailto:<a href="mailto:tkteal@datacarpentry.org" target="_blank">tkteal@datacarpentry.org</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang<br><b>Cc:</b> Leah Wasser; <a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry workshop - advice</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Hi Leah,<br><br>That's great there's good interest! I agree with Ethan both that the lessons for Python and R are redundant and that it would be tough to teach both languages in two days. Maybe the question is more, what are people looking to do? Are they doing statistical analysis and data visualization with ecological data? If so, then R might be better. If they want to write scripts for data parsing or work with a lot of colleagues who are working in Python, that might be better. <br><br>As Kai says, the current Data Carpentry workshop components are focused on data organization/management and the data analysis/presentation/visualization.<br><br>The current modules are:<br><br>- spreadsheets for data organization<br>- OpenRefine for data cleaning (30 minute demo)<br>- SQL for managing and querying data<br>- introduction to R or Python for data analysis and visualization<br>- the shell for automation<br><br>If you wanted to be able to spend more time on R or Python, which we're finding people are interested in, especially being able to get through more of the data visualization, you could leave out the shell or SQL and use that extra time for R or Python. <br><br>The mix of experience is always a challenge. Data Carpentry lessons right now have been developed for people with little to no prior computational experience, so no prior experience is expected or required. This means things can be a little slower for people who do have some experience, but has the advantage that we're clear about the level up front and it doesn't leave as many people behind. People with more experience still learn new tips and tricks for the things they've seen already and can help their neighbors, and often even if someone is experience with one tool, they might be new to another - so maybe they know SQL well, but haven't worked in R before. <br><br>This focus on learners newer to computation, does mean, as Ethan mentioned that we're also not currently teaching git. As a concept, it's more advanced than what most people new to programming are ready for. We have talked about adding to the R lesson a component about working with github from within RStudio, as that takes away some of the complexity, but haven't had a chance to develop that or try it out yet. <br><br>Does this approach and modules seem like it matches with what the people there need? <br><br>Best,<br>-Tracy<o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-left:18.75pt;margin-top:22.5pt;margin-right:18.75pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt'><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #EDEEF0 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt 0in 0in 0in;display:table'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D03BBD.52209870" name="msg-f:1491649060163014524_compose-unknown-contact.jpg"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><a href="mailto:hky2@uw.edu" target="_blank"><b>Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang</b></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><span style='color:#9FA2A5'>January 28, 2015 at 5:25 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.25in;margin-right:.25in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>Leah:</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>You might want to focus on either (1) data preparation/munging/management, or (2) data analysis/presentation. Data exploration probably is in between the two areas. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>It could be too aggressive trying to cover all aspects of data science in two days. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>Also you might want to assume the attendees can master at least one programming language. I believe learning how to program belongs to software carpentry. Data carpentry is all about data science.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>My 2 cent.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>Thanks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>-kai</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>_______________________________________________<br>dc-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:18.75pt;margin-top:22.5pt;margin-right:18.75pt;margin-bottom:7.5pt'><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #EDEEF0 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt 0in 0in 0in;display:table'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><img border=0 width=25 height=25 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D03BBD.52209870" name="msg-f:1491649060163014524_compose-unknown-contact.jpg"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><a href="mailto:lwasser@neoninc.org" target="_blank"><b>Leah Wasser</b></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;vertical-align:middle'><span style='color:#9FA2A5'>January 28, 2015 at 12:09 AM</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div style='margin-left:.25in;margin-right:.25in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-outline-level:1'><span style='color:#888888'>HI Tracey, and fellow DC participants.<br>I am looking for some advice. There has been ongoing interest in a Data Carpentry workshop at NEON (where i work for those of you who don't know me). :) <br><br>The challenge that I see at this point, is figuring out what content would be most relevant. I posted a survey today and already have a handful of responses - all interested in a 2 day workshop. <br><br>However there is a mix of interest in Python vs R. And some mix of background (mostly intermediate focused however). <br><br>I am giving everyone a week to respond to the survey. Then I need to figure out an approach. Depending upon the volume of responses, i am even thinking about something that is split across days (R one day, python another). Git and shell combined? OR SQL ? Can anyone help guide me through the logistics of deciding the best approach for this workshop once the survey results are in?<br><br>Thank you in advance!!<br>leah<br><br>Leah A. Wasser, Ph.D.<br>Remote Sensing Ecologist<br>Senior Science Educator - Universities<br>National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON)<br>Boulder, Colorado<br><br>________________________________________<br>From: <a href="mailto:dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org</a> <a href="mailto:dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank"><dc-discuss-bounces@lists.idyll.org></a> on behalf of <a href="mailto:dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org</a> <a href="mailto:dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank"><dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org></a><br>Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 1:00 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br>Subject: dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2<br><br>Send dc-discuss mailing list submissions to<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br><a href="http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss-request@lists.idyll.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss-owner@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss-owner@lists.idyll.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of dc-discuss digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br>1. Data Carpentry Genomics and Assessment hackathon (Tracy Teal)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 10:34:30 -0500<br>From: Tracy Teal <a href="mailto:tkteal@datacarpentry.org" target="_blank"><tkteal@datacarpentry.org></a><br>Subject: [data-carpentry-discuss] Data Carpentry Genomics and<br>Assessment hackathon<br>To: <a href="mailto:discuss@datacarpentry.org" target="_blank">discuss@datacarpentry.org</a><br>Message-ID: <a href="mailto:54C7B006.4060605@datacarpentry.org" target="_blank"><54C7B006.4060605@datacarpentry.org></a><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<br><br>If you're working or interested in genomics or assessment, we hope<br>you'll consider applying for our upcoming Data Carpentry Genomics and<br>Assessment hackathon. We?re very excited about this event and the<br>opportunity to develop lessons targeting genomics researchers and build<br>assessment in to the curriculum. Travel support is available. Please<br>apply to participate!<br><br>Dates: March 23-25, 2015<br>Location: Cold Spring Harbor Labs, NY<br><br>It's a short application and the deadline is this Friday, January 30th.<br><br>Call for Participation:<br><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5Bfc-Igt7Hd8kjXsuPw7SenOHkxIQbEDbtnZfAxXbA/pub" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5Bfc-Igt7Hd8kjXsuPw7SenOHkxIQbEDbtnZfAxXbA/pub</a><br><br>Application:<br><a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cSQyPIvTIhCQGrFLRoQ0kSway1ZyxgRm9QL85BW8v8/viewform" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cSQyPIvTIhCQGrFLRoQ0kSway1ZyxgRm9QL85BW8v8/viewform</a><br><br>If you have any questions about the event, please let me know!<br><br>Best,<br>-Tracy<br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>dc-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss</a><br><br><br>End of dc-discuss Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2<br>****************************************<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>dc-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>dc-discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org" target="_blank">dc-discuss@lists.idyll.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/dc-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>