[data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry workshop - advice

Greg Wilson gvwilson at software-carpentry.org
Thu Jan 29 14:50:31 PST 2015 

Hi all,

Hybridization engenders robustness - sure, do what's best for the 
audience and tell us afterward how it went.

Thanks
Greg

On 2015-01-29 12:15 PM, Christie Bahlai wrote:
>
> Hi Leah, Ted, et al;
>
> If it’s heresy, oops, I’m a heretic ;). I recently instructed at a SC 
> bootcamp at U of M, and we had learners divided into two rooms- novice 
> and intermediate. Looking at the pre-workshop surveys, I decided that 
> the novice room needed a bit more of an introductory go at object 
> manipulation than the standard SC materials provided, so I used the DC 
> materials for the first half of the R lesson. My co-instructors also 
> worked in some of the DC data management curriculum in with the shell 
> lesson.
>
> Is this slight hybridization kosher? All I know is the students are 
> apparently asking for a DC bootcamp as well!
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Christie
>
> *From:*dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org 
> [mailto:dc-discuss-bounces at lists.idyll.org] *On Behalf Of *Ted Hart
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2015 11:55 AM
> *To:* Leah Wasser; Tracy Teal; Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang
> *Cc:* dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry 
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> Glad to see that NEON supporting you putting on the workshop. Having 
> read your e-mails it sounds like what you want is partially in the 
> domain of Software Carpentry.  I think SWC would give them many things 
> they might need, but not know they need.  For instance you heard that 
> people are interested in loops, automating and optimization.  Well, 
> those are all pretty hard to do without a decent understanding of 
> variables and data structures, and even optimization (profiling to 
> start) needs functions.
>
> To expand a bit, how can you do loops and automation in any language 
> without understanding different basic data structures..e.g. looping 
> over a list is different than looping over a vector which is different 
> than looping over a dataframe in R.  So I wonder if you could just 
> sort of slip those concepts in while focusing on the parts people want 
> to learn and they'll learn more without even knowing it :). Git is 
> also probably essential because I know more and more NEON work is 
> being put on github.  In the end workshop might end up looking like a 
> hybrid of an advanced data carpentry (dealing with complex formats, 
> SQL) and some basic software carpentry.
>
> I don't know if this is heresy, but it might be best to pull from both 
> curriculums to meet the specific needs of NEON.
>
> Ted
>
> On Thu Jan 29 2015 at 8:03:18 AM Leah Wasser <lwasser at neoninc.org 
> <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>> wrote:
>
> HI Ethan, Tracy and Kai,
>
> Thank you ALL so much for the feedback so far. I truly appreciate it.
>
> I gave folks here until next week to fill out the survey. As of now, 
> I’m at 18 responses – most of which are open / interested in a full 2 
> day workshop. 6-Python, 12 – R. Most are interested in SQL as well.
>
> Pulling Git makes sense and most would benefit from a short section on 
> shell. I think most really want to focus on R or python. I also am 
> open to doing two workshops or splitting materials if that makes sense 
> to cover everyone’s interests. For instance, I thought about just 
> doing an afternoon focused on manipulating HDF5 data in R.
>
> In this case, our audience are not novice users. They self identify as 
> Beginner / intermediate – ie they’re programming now – many regularly. 
> Many don’t have formal training and want to hone skills. Does that by 
> default make DC – not quite the right fit here? Thoughts?
>
> Topically they are interested in
>
> 1.Hierarchical data formats (I’ve built materials for that)
>
> 2.Spatial data (I have a bit on that as well
>
> 3.Automating processes, looping, optimization
>
> 4.I’m sure data viz as well (I didn’t include that in the list
>
> Very few were interested in the core programming skills (ie creating 
> functions, variables, etc). I think because they are already 
> implementing those skills.
>
> Thank you again for any feedback / advice, etc.
>
> Leah
>
> *From:*Tracy Teal [mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org 
> <mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2015 8:40 PM
> *To:* Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang
> *Cc:* Leah Wasser; dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org 
> <mailto:dc-discuss at lists.idyll.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [data-carpentry-discuss] Organizing Data Carpentry 
> workshop - advice
>
> Hi Leah,
>
> That's great there's good interest! I agree with Ethan both that the 
> lessons for Python and R are redundant and that it would be tough to 
> teach both languages in two days. Maybe the question is more, what are 
> people looking to do? Are they doing statistical analysis and data 
> visualization with ecological data? If so, then R might be better. If 
> they want to write scripts for data parsing or work with a lot of 
> colleagues who are working in Python, that might be better.
>
> As Kai says, the current Data Carpentry workshop components are 
> focused on data organization/management and the data 
> analysis/presentation/visualization.
>
> The current modules are:
>
> - spreadsheets for data organization
> - OpenRefine for data cleaning (30 minute demo)
> - SQL for managing and querying data
> - introduction to R or Python for data analysis and visualization
> - the shell for automation
>
> If you wanted to be able to spend more time on R or Python, which 
> we're finding people are interested in, especially being able to get 
> through more of the data visualization, you could leave out the shell 
> or SQL and use that extra time for R or Python.
>
> The mix of experience is always a challenge. Data Carpentry lessons 
> right now have been developed for people with little to no prior 
> computational experience, so no prior experience is expected or 
> required. This means things can be a little slower for people who do 
> have some experience, but has the advantage that we're clear about the 
> level up front and it doesn't leave as many people behind. People with 
> more experience still learn new tips and tricks for the things they've 
> seen already and can help their neighbors, and often even if someone 
> is experience with one tool, they might be new to another - so maybe 
> they know SQL well, but haven't worked in R before.
>
> This focus on learners newer to computation, does mean, as Ethan 
> mentioned that we're also not currently teaching git. As a concept, 
> it's more advanced than what most people new to programming are ready 
> for.  We have talked about adding to the R lesson a component about 
> working with github from within RStudio, as that takes away some of 
> the complexity, but haven't had a chance to develop that or try it out 
> yet.
>
> Does this approach and modules seem like it matches with what the 
> people there need?
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
> *Hsi-Kai (Kai) Yang* <mailto:hky2 at uw.edu>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 5:25 PM
>
> Leah:
>
> You might want to focus on either (1) data 
> preparation/munging/management, or (2) data analysis/presentation. 
> Data exploration probably is in between the two areas.
>
> It could be too aggressive trying to cover all aspects of data science 
> in two days.
>
> Also you might want to assume the attendees can master at least one 
> programming language. I believe learning how to program belongs to 
> software carpentry. Data carpentry is all about data science.
>
> My 2 cent.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -kai
>
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>
> *Leah Wasser* <mailto:lwasser at neoninc.org>
>
> January 28, 2015 at 12:09 AM
>
> HI Tracey, and fellow DC participants.
> I am looking for some advice. There has been ongoing interest in a 
> Data Carpentry workshop at NEON (where i work for those of you who 
> don't know me). :)
>
> The challenge that I see at this point, is figuring out what content 
> would be most relevant. I posted a survey today and already have a 
> handful of responses - all interested in a 2 day workshop.
>
> However there is a mix of interest in Python vs R. And some mix of 
> background (mostly intermediate focused however).
>
> I am giving everyone a week to respond to the survey. Then I need to 
> figure out an approach. Depending upon the volume of responses, i am 
> even thinking about something that is split across days (R one day, 
> python another). Git and shell combined? OR SQL ? Can anyone help 
> guide me through the logistics of deciding the best approach for this 
> workshop once the survey results are in?
>
> Thank you in advance!!
> leah
>
> Leah A. Wasser, Ph.D.
> Remote Sensing Ecologist
> Senior Science Educator - Universities
> National Ecological Observatory Network (NEON)
> Boulder, Colorado
>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Data Carpentry Genomics and Assessment hackathon (Tracy Teal)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 10:34:30 -0500
> From: Tracy Teal <tkteal at datacarpentry.org> 
> <mailto:tkteal at datacarpentry.org>
> Subject: [data-carpentry-discuss] Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon
> To: discuss at datacarpentry.org <mailto:discuss at datacarpentry.org>
> Message-ID: <54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org> 
> <mailto:54C7B006.4060605 at datacarpentry.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> If you're working or interested in genomics or assessment, we hope
> you'll consider applying for our upcoming Data Carpentry Genomics and
> Assessment hackathon. We?re very excited about this event and the
> opportunity to develop lessons targeting genomics researchers and build
> assessment in to the curriculum. Travel support is available. Please
> apply to participate!
>
> Dates: March 23-25, 2015
> Location: Cold Spring Harbor Labs, NY
>
> It's a short application and the deadline is this Friday, January 30th.
>
> Call for Participation:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r5Bfc-Igt7Hd8kjXsuPw7SenOHkxIQbEDbtnZfAxXbA/pub
>
> Application:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/17cSQyPIvTIhCQGrFLRoQ0kSway1ZyxgRm9QL85BW8v8/viewform
>
> If you have any questions about the event, please let me know!
>
> Best,
> -Tracy
>
>
>
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-- 
Dr. Greg Wilson    | gvwilson at software-carpentry.org
Software Carpentry | http://software-carpentry.org

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